Rampart Scandal -- The Perez Transcripts
Transcript #5a from Oct. 11, 1999

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STATEMENT OF

RAFAEL ANTONIO PEREZ,

TAKEN AT THE METRO TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY (MTA) BUILDING, LOS ANGELES,
CALIFORNIA.

IN RE: CASE NO. BA109900
People vs. Rafael Antonio Perez


APPEARANCES BY:

Richard Rosenthal
Deputy District Attorney
Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office
Special Investigations Division
210 West Temple Street
17th Floor
Los Angeles, California 90012

Luis Segura
Detective Sergeant
Los Angeles Police Department
Robbery-Homicide Division Task Force
1 Gateway Plaza
Los Angeles, California 90012

Tom Wich
Detective
Los Angeles Police Department
Robbery-Homicide Division Task Force
1 Gateway Plaza
Los Angeles, California 90012

John Cook
Detective Sergeant
Los Angeles Police Department
Robbery-Homicide Division Task Force
1 Gateway Plaza
Los Angeles, California 90012

Stan Nalywaiko
Detective
Los Angeles Police Department
Robbery-Homicide Division Task Force
1 Gateway Plaza
Los Angeles, California 90012

Brian Tyndall
Detective
Robbery/Homicide Division
1 Gateway Plaza
Los Angeles, California 90012






Winston Kevin McKesson
Attorney at Law
315 S. Beverly Drive
Suite 305
Beverly Hills, California 90212-4309



REPORTED BY:

Sara A. Mahan
Stenographic Reporter
Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office
C.S.R. No. 10647




sam/99-031
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, MONDAY, OCTOBER 11, 1999: 10:30 A.M.




MR. ROSENTHAL: All right. It's October 11, 1999. It's 10:30 in the
morning. These are the continuing interviews of Rafael Perez.
Present today are, uh, Rafael Perez with his attorney, Winston
Kevin McKesson. I'm Richard Rosenthal, Deputy District Attorney.
Uh, the questioning is going to begin, initially, uh, with, uh,
Sgt. Lou Segura and --
DET. WICH: Detective Tom Wich.
MR. ROSENTHAL: -- Detective Tom Wich. Uh, also present, at this time,
at the beginning of the interview, are, uh, Detective Stan Nalywaiko, Sgt.
Tom Cook.
SGT. COOK: John.
MR. ROSENTHAL: Or John Cook. I'm sorry. And, uh, Detective Brian
Tyndall. All right. Uh, Mr. Perez, if you'll please raise your right hand.

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?"
THE WITNESS: I do.
MR. ROSENTHAL: Okay. Proceed.

RAFAEL ANTONIO PEREZ,
duly sworn and called as a witness, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY DET. SEGURA:
Q Ray, basically, as, uh, I was telling you before, uhm, myself,
Tom Wich, and Mike Hohan are going to handle the Shatto Place shooting. And,
apparently, you relayed to one of the detectives that you had -- you had
remembered something and you wanted to tell us something about the Shatto
Place shooting?
A Right. Just one small, uh, incident that -- that I -- it struck
my mind. Uhm, on the day of the, uh -- of the meeting, when we had met up,
uh, before we went to drive into the location, I, originally, told you that
Sgt. Ortiz was driving and I was in the front passenger and, uh, Duarte was
in the rear.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Well, right when we were about to leave, once everybody had set
up, we decided that just in case somebody ran northbound -- 'cause we were
gonna come from the south coming north.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And we decided, at the last minute, what if somebody runs north.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And we got nobody covering it.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Uh, so, at the last minute, Sgt. Ortiz decided, well, he'll just
bring his, uhm, -- his vehicle and come from the north to the south. And
Duarte jumped from the rear back seat and drove. And, uhm, there was a
question that brought -- that was brought up, uh, the last time I was here.
And it jarred my memory about that part of the, uh, -- of the scenario.
Q Okay. So, as you're remembering it now, then, Ortiz was not in
the taxi?
A Yeah, well, he was gonna be originally.
Q Uh-huh.
A We were gonna leave his car there. And he was gonna drive. We
were all gonna go in one car. And then we decided that what if somebody runs
north from the location.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And we decided, at the last minute, that he'll just take -- bring
his car by himself.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A He'll just drive south from, uh, I believe it's Wilshire.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Wilshire coming south. And, uh, Duarte jumped up in the front
seat and drove north.
Q And -- and you drove?
A No.
Q You drove -- you -- but, no, you drove the taxi as you're -- as
you're coming up. I'm sorry. I'm not understanding. Who drove the taxi up
to the location?
A Raquel Duarte drove the taxi --
Q Oh, okay.
A -- from the south --
Q Right.
A -- uh, to the north.
Q Okay.
A From the, I think the 7th Street coming north.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And, uh, Sgt. Ortiz drove his, uh, hybrid, uh, police vehicle
from the, uhm, north like Wilshire, coming south.
Q Mmnh-mmnh. But, originally -- actually, Perez was actually --
Perez? Ortiz was literally inside the taxi before, when you were about to
drive up. The original plan was for all three of you --
A Right.
Q -- to be in the taxi; correct?
A Right. I don't know if he was already in the car. I know we
were at the car. And then, we started discussing it. And we talked about
what if somebody runs north.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And just to have the least, uh, police presence, uh, a unit
coming in from the north to not have them running north, we just had a unit
coming south -- his unit.
Q Mmnh-mmnh. As you well know, one of the key issues we're looking
at is the taxi cab --
A Right.
Q -- and who knew about the taxi cab. And -- and the point I want
to make is this, Number 1, Ortiz did know that a taxi cab was being used to
drive up to the location.
A He ordered me to go get the cab.
Q Right.
A He ordered me and Duarte.
Q Secondly, he knew that a taxi cab actually arrived, and a taxi
cab was used.
A Yes. After the, uh, shooting occurred, he, uh -- he asked us to
get that car out of there and bring the Taurus back. Q Right.
A Yes.
Q And, originally, see we had thought -- we were going with the
assumption that not only did he know about it, he participated in using the
taxi cab in that he drove up. And that's why I'm asking, do you actually
remember did he get to the point of where he's inside and you guys decide,
oh, wait minute, maybe somebody has to cover the north.
A Well, he -- the cab was there. We had the cab already. You
know, we -- we were sitting there talking about it. And then, that's when
we decided. But he knew the cab was there. He knew we were driving it. He
saw us getting in the cab and driving the, you know, the vehicle.
So, he -- he ordered us to go get the vehicle. So, of course,
he knew about the taxi cab. Yes.
Q Okay. All right. Another point that I'd like to cover on this,
on the shooting, is when Patel shoots the, uh, I believe it's, uhm, Saldana,
up on the third floor, and then, uh, Hewitt and Stepp arrived, see him, say
something to the effect of "Oh, shit" and then go and retrieve the gun. Is
that correct? Am I understanding it correctly?
A Right.
Q Summarizing it correctly?
A Yes.
Q Uhm, you mentioned, in, uh, one of the previous interviews, that
later they discussed it a little bit. Or it was discussed the fact that
that, uh, the suspect had a gun at one point, but had dropped it, or had
dumped it --
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q -- before he was actually shot. Am I understanding that
correctly?
A I don't think I said that we discussed that he had actually --
I think I had said that it was my belief, or I believe that what happened was
-- because I have talked about it was a running gun battle.
Q Correct.
A Right. That's when I said that I believe he had already dropped
the gun, just by the little talks that we were having. And that's why they
were chasing him all the way around across the -- uh, one floor, down some
stairway. They were shooting at him down some stairway.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Uhm, and that's why I believe, if he had this gun --
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A -- that it was dropped. 'Cause they -- when they came down and
say that the guy was down, they ran back up. And it looked like they were
retrieving a gun.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And then came back down and placed the gun on the first, uh,
step.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Yes.
Q Reviewing the transcripts, uh, -- and I have them here. We don't
need -- we don't need to nit-pick that closely. But I have it here. It --
uh, you actually said one time that it was maybe even seconds Patel and Doyle
Stepp are only gone seconds --
A Right.
Q -- and then they come back with, uh -- with the gun.
A Right.
Q So, it was real quick. It wasn't long enough to go to their
vehicle --
A No. Definitely.
Q -- and get the gun.
A It definitely wasn't -- if I had to put a time on it, you know --
and like I said, this was happening very quickly --
but it was a matter of -- you know, very short period. Seconds I would say.
Uh --
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A -- I wouldn't even count minutes. I would probably say in the
seconds.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Uh, it looks like they ran back up the flight of stairs. I don't
know where exactly they went to. And they came right back down. And, uh,
to the step and placed the gun down. Q Can you try and remember?
Can you remember where you heard some of these conversations that -- that you
picked up that he originally had a gun and may have dropped it, or thrown it,
discarded it, as they're chasing him?
A One of the conversations that I do remember, because I remember,
uh, Montoya talking about it, was up at the benches during one of our mug
parties.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And I don't know who it was that was leaving the unit. But, uh,
I remember Montoya talking about how all the pellets hit the guy except one.
Uh, 'cause he was saying -- he was saying it went in -- into him at an angle
or something. The rounds went into him at an angle.
Q Uh-huh.
A And -- and I remember joking around with, uh, Stepp and, uh, --
and Hewitt about how many rounds they had fired and hit -- that had hit the
banister, they hit doors, they hit door jams.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And I was -- and someone had told me, I think that Detective
Hohan said -- told me that he was hit in the back by one of them. I didn't
even know that.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A But, uhm, -- and I remember it was something that was said, some
little jokes that were being made. And I couldn't tell you exactly what they
were.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Uhm, but it was little -- little innuendos, sort of, uh --
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A -- up at the benches. Uh, --
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A -- up at the Academy.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A When I say "the benches" I mean up at the Academy.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And what exactly was being said -- what exact words by who, I --
I couldn't even -- I can't remember.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A But I remember some little things, you know.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And, especially, the part about how they were chasing him and --
and he was running through the hallway. I remember that. But who -- what --
what exactly what was said by each officer, I can't remember.
Q And, now, we're talking about Stepp and Hewitt; right? Because,
at first, you mentioned, uh, Montoya and the pellets. But that's on the
first shooting -- or -- or on the, uh, Jose Perez shooting --
A Right.
Q -- with the shotgun.
A Right.
Q And, now, we're talking about maybe Stepp and, uh, -- and Hewitt
are also there at the benches. And they start talking about the fact that,
uhm, they were chasing him, and innuendos that maybe that the gun was
possibly dropped.
A Right.
Q You don't remember which one of them, or who might have said
what?
A Which -- right. I don't. I -- I know -- I remember Montoya
specifically talking about how -- and I can't remember if there's eight or
nine pellets in a shotgun round.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A But I remember him saying that all the pellets hit the guy at an
angle --
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A -- except one pellet that didn't hit him.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And, uhm, there was some other things that were said. I can't
remember everything that he was saying. But I remember that for some reason.
And I remember the talk about how they were chasing this guy all the way
around. And -- and little things like that. Exactly what they said and who
said it, I can't remember.
Q What about that night? The night of the shooting, uh, did you
go up to the benches after the shooting that night; do you remember?
A No, we went to the, uhm, -- we went to the Sh- -- uh, Short
Stop.
Q Okay.
A I think we were there 'til 6:00, 7:00 in the morning. Q
Mmnh-mmnh. To go --
A Uh, we were there late. And, you know, he closes the bar. But
he let's --
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A -- he let's us stay in there. And we were there for quite some
time.
Q And, again, talking probably about -- about the shooting?
A Talking, uh, trying to keep everything -- you know, when you
talk, you know, you sort of -- you talk in sort of riddles. You know, you
kind of just make innuendos about what happened.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A Uh, things aren't talked straight out, you know, oh, well, this
happened, that happened. But like every time Stepp
-- let's say there was a -- a guy there at the bar. And, oh, so, you guys
just got in a shooting? Right. And Stepp is describing -- and Hewitt's
describing the shooting.
You know, and -- and certain parts of it, I know for a fact, like
the gun that they placed there. You know, and the guy had a gun. And, --
and, you know, we would look at each other. You know, I would look at Stepp
or Hewitt. And, you know, like, you know, without saying too many words,
you're -- you're telling each other -- or you acknowledge, you know, you know
what really happened.
Q Mmnh-mmnh. Do you remember that night at the Short Stop either
Hewitt or Stepp, or anyone saying about the gun being dropped?
A No. Someone specifically saying --
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A -- yeah, we planted that gun? No.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A No.
Q And at the scene itself, was there any talk, anything that you
remember anyone saying, at the apartment building, about the gun being
dropped?
A No.
Q Okay. All right. That's all I've got. Tom, anything on this
shooting?
Q BY DET. WICH: Uhm, I just came into this a week ago. So, I'm
catching up on this case. But on some of the stuff I've seen, the guy
upstairs, Saldana --
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q -- it was you that brought him downstairs to the front of the
apartment?
A Yes, sir.
Q He was never left up there? There were no other officers that
came in that stood guard --
A Well --
Q -- and waited for the paramedics?
A Well, myself, uh, Stepp, Hewitt, Patel, and I believe Ortiz,
eventually, and maybe another officer, uh, we were all there around him at --
Q Right.
A -- at one point. Uh, Stepp was there -- or Patel was there
first. I'm behind him running towards him. And the shots were fired. And
he's on the ground. I'm -- so, I'm the second guy there, or the second
officer there. I tell, uh, Patel to decock and holster. You know, lower
your weapon.
Q Right.
A Because I was gonna approach him to try and -- to try and, uh --
uh, handcuff him. And then, that's when I see, uh, Stepp and Hewitt, uh,
come down and say something like, "Oh, shit, you know, Kulin got him." And
they sort of ran right back upstairs real quick and came back down.
Q Okay.
A And that's when, uh, Stepp holding the -- the gun like with his
-- almost, uh, his nails, uh, placed the gun on the very first step of the,
uh, -- of the stairs.
Q Okay. And then, you handcuffed this guy?
A Yes. Yes.
Q And then, at some time, you -- you brought him downstairs?
A After --
Q Who -- who told you to do that?
A Uh, it had to be Sgt. Ortiz. Uhm, he said something about the
paramedics were going to be downstairs. Let's just bring him downstairs and
have them, uh, meet him at the -- at the entrance of the, uh, -- of the
building.
Q And then, from reading the transcript, Sgt. Ortiz was down on the
first floor while you were upstairs. And then, the officers on the third
floor, there's a gunshot, and suspect --
the victim I should say. The wounded suspect. You're up on the third floor.
A Okay.
Q Officer Stepp brings the gun down to him. Sgt. Ortiz wasn't
there when this happened?
A No.
Q Okay. When Sgt. Ortiz comes up, the gun's already there. The
suspect's already handcuffed.
A Yes.
Q And that's when you believe he told you, "Let's bring this guy
downstairs to the paramedics?"
A Well, this is after some other things have happened. Uh, they
talked. Uh, other things were going on.
Q They talked? That means --
A Uh, some of the officers that were involved in the shooting, have
already gathered up with Sgt. Ortiz and began speaking. Uhm, I would say it
was several minutes. In fact, when I brought, uh, the victim that was
upstairs, down, uh, to the first floor, the R.A. was already there.
So, obviously, some time had already elapsed.
Q Did the R.A. take him out of the apartment complex, or did you
take him out of the apartment complex?
A No. The R.A. met me right at the first floor landing. Q
Okay.
A Uhm, when you go to take your very first step, up the stairs --
Q Right.
A -- on the first floor, they met me right there.
Q Okay. Prior to guys coming into the location, you're out with
the cars -- I mean, away from the location, you got an O.P. set up. Do you
know who's in the O.P.?
A Uh, Officer Richardson.
Q Anybody with him?
A I believe his partner is with him. But I --
Q Okay.
A -- I'm not -- the only person that was talking in the O.P. was
Richardson. So, I can't --
Q Okay.
A -- say for certain that he was up there. Because I wasn't up
there.
Q Did he ever tell you where his O.P. was at?
A I believe when we, uh, met together -- uh, we met up originally,
we had said that we had an O.P. and were sitting across the street in the
building.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A But the building across the street from 676.
Q And you say, "we" met up? Richardson's not there. He's at the
O.P.?
A Right.
Q Okay.
A Right.
Q And he's describing to you what's going on out front?
A Exactly.
Q Okay. And then, you guys are called in. Does he call you guys
in? Or you tell him that you're rolling in?
A Well, once we meet up -- when we meet up the first time, uhm, we
game-plan it.
Q Right.
A Figure out how we're gonna do it. Which officers are gonna go
to the rear of the building. How are they gonna get back there. Uh, which
officer's gonna cover which floor. And, also, uh, we get our instructions
to go get a cab.
Q Okay.
A Take the guy that -- that owns the cab. Put him on ice over at
the station. And then, come back and meet up with him again. And once we
met up with them again, we got briefed as to how many players were still out
front. Uhm, and, you know, how were we gonna deploy.
Q Right.
A And then, from there, we went.
Q Well, what would be the time frame of finding out that you have
an O.P., they're talking to you guys about guys out front. So, you actually
arrive to the apartment. What's that
-- what would be a time frame where you had to go get the taxi cab and put
the guy on ice, as you say. How much time are we talking?
A Total time? I'd probably say -- and I'm -- I'm guessing. Maybe
45 minutes.
Q Okay.
A From -- you're talking about from the time that we finally got
the cab?
Q I'm talking about, you got the -- you -- you send guys out. Or
Richardson goes out to do an O.P.
A Right.
Q From him arriving at his O.P. location, you know he's there, 'til
the time you actually drive up, --
A Oh.
Q -- with the cab, how long do you think Richardson would be at
that O.P.?
A I couldn't tell you. 'Cause what happened was, I think
Richardson and his partner, uh, Montoya and Hewitt, they all went to, uh --
to, uh, ski it and -- and take a look at it first.
Q Right.
A What it was is there was a shooting the day before.
Q No, I understand that.
A Two of them were killed.
Q Right.
A So, we send the guys that are working 18th Street, out to go take
a look at it, see if there's anything going on. Q Okay.
A If there was something going on, we'll meet up. We'll call the
-- we'll call a -- a snoopy-up location. We'll know where to meet. And
then, we'll take it from there.
So, how long were they looking at the place, before they finally
called us in? I don't know.
Q Okay. When you got called in, and you got snoopied-up, --
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q -- you hadn't had the taxi cab yet?
A No.
Q Okay. What I want to get to, when you were snoopied-up to the --
am I going too fast? Sorry. Okay. Sorry about that. I understand.
When you guys snoopied-up, --
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q -- it's your opinion that the O.P. was already set up?
A It was, yeah.
Q Okay. How long from that snoopied-up, 'til you guys went to --
through the front door of the apartment, how much time was that?
A At that point, I believe it was about 45 minutes.
Q Okay.
A About 45 minutes.
Q And who was it that goes in the front door with you?
A Me and Sgt. Ortiz go in the front door simultaneously. Uh,
Raquel Duarte stays back a little bit.
Q Okay. So, just -- it's three of you that pull up in two cars.
The taxi cab and Sgt. Ortiz. Is he in a hybrid car, or is he --
A A hybrid, yes.
Q Okay. So, there's actually three of you in front. And two go
in.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And that's when -- on your way in, you hear shots go off.
You hear a shotgun go off?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Duarte stays out front.
A Yes.
Q Why is she out front? Is she guarding anybody? Is there anybody
out front for her to guard?
A I don't remember anybody being out front. I know that when we
were -- when we were coming in and we heard shots fired, she started sort of
taking cover behind one of the vehicles --
Q Okay.
A -- or the taxi cab, actually. And me and Sgt. Ortiz wanted to
get in there and we wanted to know what was going on.
Q Okay. And then, a short time later, did Richardson ever come in
there?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And his partner, did he come in? Or did he stay outside?
A I believe his partner eventually came in as well.
Q Okay. And then, the, uh, last thing I've got, is the paramedics.
They didn't treat the guy on the third floor at all inside the building.
Everything was done outside.
A No, I didn't say that. What I said was they met me at the
landing of the first stair.
Q Okay. The landing of the first stair.
A That's where they --
Q That's inside the apartment --
A Inside the apartment building.
Q -- apartment building?
A Right. Once you're inside the apartment, the lobby area, the
first step you take to start heading up to the next level.
Q That's where they treated him?
A That's where they took him, uh, from me, and they started
treating him, yes.
Q Okay.
Q BY DET. SEGURA: Just, uh, two quick questions to close up on --
on the points that you, uh, brought up. The timing of the vehicles, when
you're going up in the taxi, and Ortiz is coming southbound, uh, on Shatto
already approaching the apartment building, did you both -- both vehicles go
at about the same time?
What was the timing? Do you remember?
A I went first, and then he came up, uh, just seconds after that.
What we would do is we were -- like I said, we're working on 181 Boy, or on
Simplex. And what I would do is I would come in first. I'd let him know,
okay, I'm -- I'm rolling.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A And, so, we knew we were hot. So, I start rolling. And then,
right after that, he starts coming down.
Q Mmnh-mmnh.
A But right when I pull in, as I'm getting out of the car, he's
pulling right up, too, and we're both getting out of the car.
Q Okay. And, uhm, how -- when did you decide -- how did you decide
when you and Raquel Duarte start to move in?
A Just when I was ready, and everybody was set, I let him know,
"Okay. I'm gonna roll." And whenever I -- it's whenever I got on the radio
and told them, "Okay. We're gonna roll" everybody knew we're hot. We're --
we're moving.
Q So, everything started, as best you remember, because you decide
that -- you said, okay, we're ready to roll --
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q -- and we're moving now?
A That's correct.
Q It's not because the O.P. said there's a gang member with a gun
running into the building?
A No.
Q Or they are, at that moment, with the gun at the building?
A No. It was just, "Okay. I'm -- I'm gonna be rolling." And
just, "Okay. Moving." And we went in.
Q Okay.
Q BY DET. WICH: And one other thing here. The guy on the third
floor that was shot, was he ever moved down to the second floor --
A Well --
Q -- to say that's where the shooting occurred? It's a four-story
building, right?
A I believe so.
Q Okay. You come in. One suspect's down already. And he's shot.
And you move on up to the next -- you go to the second floor, or third floor?
Is that where you see the guy -- the second suspect got shot?
MR. MCKESSON: For the record, Officer Perez appears to be closing his
eyes like he's trying to remember.
THE WITNESS: I'm a -- I'm a little confused now. You said there's
four floors?
DET. WICH: I -- I -- I haven't been there.
SGT. SEGURA: Yes, there are four floors in the apartment building.
MR. MCKESSON: Do you guys want to take him there?
SGT. SEGURA: At some point, yes, we'll want to take him, you know,
walk him.
Q BY MR. ROSENTHAL: Let me just, to go into this, my understanding
is Jose Perez is shot by Montoya, uhm, and runs up to the second floor,
right? So, he's down on the second floor?
A Right.
Q Now, you run past him --
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q -- to -- and you see Patel?
A Right. Patel's got his back to me.
Q And -- okay. And when Patel shoots, what floor is he on? He's
on the second floor? Or do you have to go up one more floor?
A I thought it was the third floor. But it could be the second
floor. I'm -- I'm a little confused now.
Q Okay. So, do you remember when you --
A I know that, obviously, I was on one floor below the next floor,
because, uh, Hewitt and Stepp had to come down a floor to where we were at.

Q Okay. So, you had to be on either the second or the third floor?
A Right. Now, I'm a little confused, because, uh, I'm
-- I was thinking it was a three-story building. And they -- they came from
one down. So, uh, what I do remember is that they came from one floor up and
came down to where we were, uh, working where Stepp was -- uh, Patel was.
Or where the guy was shot.
Q But do you remember, from the point you ran by Jose Perez on the
ground, --
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q -- to the time you ran up to Patel whether you had to go up a
floor or not?
A I thought I went up a flight of stairs. I believe I went up a
flight of stairs and then.
Q So, you think it's the third floor, but you're not certain? It
might be the second?
A That's correct. Yeah, it may be. I'm not a hundred percent
sure. I -- I really need to sort of like look at the building, sort of bring
it back in my mind.
Q All right.
A You know, it -- that would definitely help.
Q So, we'll save this for an opportunity to have him --
Q BY DET. SEGURA: And we weren't prepared for all that, Ray. We
came, basically, 'cause -- to -- because you were gonna tell us something.
And, now, we're taking advantage and questions come up, and -- and to
clarify. But what we have to do, and what we will do, is first of all, show
you the report to refresh your memory.
A Mmnh-mmnh.
Q And we are gonna set it up. It's gonna be difficult to do, and
towards the end of when we're finished interviewing you. But we are gonna
go out and have -- to do a walk-through, uh, with you to, again, help you
refresh your memory.
A Okay.
Q Okay.
MR. ROSENTHAL: Okay.
MR. MCKESSON: Don't you guys think it would be more productive if you
were to walk through it before you complete the reports?
SGT. SEGURA: We're not near completing the -- completing the reports.
MR. ROSENTHAL: No, he didn't say complete the reports. He said just
have him review reports and then do a walk-through.
SGT. SEGURA: The arrest report.
MR. MCKESSON: And I understood that.
SGT. SEGURA: Mmnh-mmnh.
MR. MCKESSON: But, uh, it just seems to me that, logistically, it
would probably be easier --
SGT. SEGURA: To do it sooner, you're saying?
MR. MCKESSON: Yeah, to have him go to the scene soon as opposed to
later.
MR. ROSENTHAL: Right. Well, let's -- we can deal with this off the
record. Okay. Are we done with Shatto Place for now, so we can move on to
some of the others?
SGT. SEGURA: We're good for now.
MR. ROSENTHAL: Okay. It's 10:55. We'll go off of the record for a
moment while we switch interviewers.
(Off the record at 10:55 a.m.)
-oo0oo-








VOLUME 5 - OFFICER INDEX

October 11, 1999 Transcript A


NAME / PAGES

Officer Raquel Duarte 690-693, 706, 708

Officer Brian Hewitt 694, 696-697, 699-
701, 705, 710

Officer Michael Montoya 695, 697, 705, 710

Sgt. Edwardo Ortiz 690-693, 700-702,
706-708

Officer Kulin Patel 693, 695, 700-701,
710-711

Officer Mark Richardson 703-705, 707

Officer Doyle Stepp 694-697, 699-702,
710